Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey all...I am looking into either buying a jig for my laminate trimmer to cut the binding channel but am wondering if it might be better to buy the Schneider Gramil from LMI...Now I know that obviously things are faster and more exact with the jig but, being silly as I am, was wondering exactly how difficult is it to do with teh gramil and a chisel? Is this stupid thinking? I just always find it more satisfying to do things by hand but wonder if this is even worth the effort...any feedback on my nonsense??

My philosophy is let the technology fit the problem, not the problem fit the technology.

So unless you can come up with a really compelling reason to use one vs. the other I would go with the one that delivers the most consistant results.

For me, I feel more comforable with the lam trimmer.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Here is an awesoome jig for a laminate trimmer to cut binding channels
With it you don't need multiple bearings.
http://luthiertool.com/binding_cutter_base.html

It allows you to move the trimmer around a fixed guitar as opposed to the
other type that hold the laminate trimmer stable while you move the guitar
under it.

Andy

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Hey Andy...That is the exact one I was going to buy...Chris there said the one for the dewalt trimmer is done. Just had a silly thought about doing it old school (by hand).   

I am a user and supporter of Mark Kett's jig. Tried the Dremmel and Ribekke cutters and Mark's jig is the one for me.
www.guitarjigs.com

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

This gives me yet another chance to refer to the discussion where I showed a picture my less-than-$5-jig that looks a lot like the "Luthier Tools" one. It's towards the end of the thread.

Binding Jig

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I like a sort of combination. If I had the room I'd probably opt for the Williams rig with the bearing guided bit and the with lam trimmer bearing guide wheel as well, giving a sort of Luthiers tool system, that is two bearings on the side but with the trimmer supported in the rig. But I don't have room so I stick with the gramil to define the channel then the trimmer to cut it.

I like to do as much of the work with hand tools for my own satisfaction, I have cut the channel with the gramil and chisels and it was a very satisfying thing to do, and it has to be said, produced a great result. But, as they say, "Life's too short to stuff a mushroom".

On my lutes every job is done by hand, no electric tools are allowed near them, kind of tradition.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Thanks Arnt! Can I paypal you the 5 bucks and you will make me one? haha

Good one, FrankC!

One thing that my jig doesn't have is the threaded adjustment screw for binding depth, I have to test on scrap until I'm there (I guess you have to do that anyways, tho). It's what a wooden plane is to a Stanley plane in that respect, both work equally well once they're set up but the wooden one can be more finicky (is that a word? Did I use it appropriately? I learned English from rock 'n roll records and TV-shows)Arnt38631.333912037

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

   That trimmer base is a nice innovation and a great idea. I have one of them and found quickly that the tapered guide plate on the base isn;t nearly steep enough to allow the cutter to maintain its depthe of cut around the surface to the neck end of the body, hence, the demonstration being performed around the lower bout and the waist wher the angle of intersection bewteeen the back and the sides is much easier to handle.

   I modified my base to allow for a contact area very similar to my rise and fall style cutter. The area of contact between the base and the back must be minimal to allow for the cutter to travel around the entire guitar while maintaining consistent depth of cut, width of cut and paralel orientation of the cutter to the side's surface relative to the infinitely variable approach of the back surface to the side as they intersect. That paralel orientation is the problem issue that has sparked the design of any specialty tool or fixture for this operation over the years. My contact area is only 1/4 of an inch wide across the base and even less at 1/8 of an inch deep.

   That means that the base is sitting on a 1/4 inch wide surafce that reaches only 1/8 inch into the back from the edge as it is moved around the guitar in order to seamlessly address the entire perimeter with consistent cut dimensions being achieved for the duration. A whole new problem of orientation is presented with this rig since you have to maintain the vertical orientation of the cutter on the opposing axis instead now.

   The units that travel up and down on European style bearing rails with the cutter stationary are the most consistently dependable alternative in my opinion. I'm still amazed at the method Martin Guitar uses to this day. It employs a specialty cutter with multiple flutes that is mounted horizontally at the end of a guide the the entire side width runs along to provide a wide bearing surface. The operator then spuns the entire body around the on the cutter to cut the channels in several passes according to the particular binding/purfling configuration of the model being made. I've seen lots of chip outs and pieces thrown from the hands of inexperienced operators, but when someone gets it down, it does a great job in that big number environment. It doesn't hurt that Martin uses only the very forgiving plastic bindings and purflings that are a snap to work with and compared to wood bindings and wood purflings.

Just my opinions and experience. I try anything that comes out to give it a chance and then do some revamping of its design to make it work better for me. Alot of it ends up on a shelf here and may never be used again....or may find its way to my banch in a special situation that can only be handled by it.

   Never throw anything away...a life law that luthiers have been known to hold near and dear to their hearts.

Again, just my opinion,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

[QUOTE=Arnt] Good one, FrankC!

I learned English from rock 'n roll records and TV-shows)[/QUOTE]

Good job it wasn't the Sex Pistols or Lance would have to censor all your posts!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I have the Luthier Tools one, and it is a supurb unit. Absolutely no slop, very precise adjustments, and it also feels very safe - the bit is entirely enclosed except the part that is actually making the cut. I could imagine cutting a small bit out of my finger or toe if I dropped the thing, but not losing a finger like could happen with some of the other setups.

Nice one Colin

It WAS the Sex Pistols! That's why I have to ask if I'm using all those difficult nice words right, the other ones I know!

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Do it with a Gramil and a chisel, at least once. It will make you a better craftsman, and as Colin says it is quite satisfying.

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Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/